Saturday, April 8, 2017

Crosstalk: Do we want Daenerys and Jon Snow to get together?

Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow are two of the most iconic characters on Game of Thrones. The two have never met, but with Daenerys finally sailing for Westeros, the odds of them coming face to face in season 7 are very good. When they meet, will there be a spark? The idea of a Jon-Daenerys romance is very popular among fans, and seems all but inevitable from a narrative perspective. Our question: do we want to see it happen?

DAN: One point I’d like to make up front: Jon Snow and Daenerys are getting together. I’m not basing that on spoilers. I’m basing that on having watched way too many movies and TV shows. Jon and Dany are the closest things Game of Thrones has to leads (give or take Tyrion Lannister). They’re photogenic, unattached, and there are good plot reasons for them to team up: Jon Snow wants to fight a bunch of ice zombies and Dany has fire-breathing dragons; Dany wants to rule the Seven Kingdoms and Jon’s in charge of one of them. They’re definitely meeting, and by the rules of television attraction, they’ll at least flirt.

If you believe the fans, they’ll do more than that. When we asked readers to vote on which couple they were most pulling for, Daenerys and Jon Snow came in second…despite never having been on the same continent. That’s how inevitable this pairing seems.

And I’m all for it. By and large, the romantic relationships on the show have been well-written, particularly those involving these two characters. Between Ygritte and Khal Drogo, both Jon and Dany have suffered through a tragic love story. Both were on hand for their partners’ dying moments, and neither has had a real romantic connection since. (No, f**k buddy Daario doesn’t count.) With that experience in common, who’s to say they can’t nurse each other back to full emotional health?

They’ve also had similar problems at work. They’re both leaders, and they’ve both had problems managing disparate coalitions — Jon was murdered by his fellow Night’s Watchmen after bringing wildlings south of the Wall, and Daenerys was basically run out of town after failing to reconcile the newly freed slaves of Meereen with their former masters. They have a lot in common — that’s important in any relationship.

The more I think about it, the more I think there could be something here. What do you think, Sarah? Can these crazy kids make it?

SARAH: Let me start by addressing the idea that Daenerys and Jon will get together because that’s generally what happens to characters of their calibre in movies and on television: Game of Thrones isn’t like most other shows. It established Ned Stark as a primary protagonist, then killed him. When Ned’s son, Robb, rose up in rebellion against his father’s killers, stepping into the (well-worn) role of the avenging son (see also: Inigo Montoya), he also wound up dead, another trope knocked into the dust. Game of Thrones has even broken the golden rule of television — don’t hurt kids or animals — on several occasions. The show likes to play with the expectations of its viewers. If a Jon/Dany coupling seemed less obvious, I’d probably have an easier time buying it.

But why is a romantic attachment obvious? That’s what I can’t wrap my head around. I can’t agree that they have a lot in common — in fact, I think they’re entirely incompatible.

Dany and Jon are both leaders, but that’s where any similarity ends. Jon didn’t apply to be Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, he got the job because his brothers decided it. He didn’t ask to be named King in the North, either. That decision was also made for him by other people. Jon’s whole life revolves around shelving his own interests and desires because other people need him. He has sacrificed everything — his family, his true love, and even his own life — to do the right thing. Jon has leadership thrust upon him; he does not seek it.

As for Daenerys, she originally wanted the Iron Throne because it belonged to her daddy. Now she believes that she can make the world a better place, and that’s admirable, but that doesn’t change the fact that she is traveling to Westeros with a huge sense of entitlement. While Jon’s supporters follow him because they have faith in his loyalty and bravery, people follow Dany because she happened to evoke some magic that brought dragons into the world. She enjoys power, conquering cities and collecting armies like marbles in a jar, and is actively interested in continuing on that path. Jon just wants to get the job done and be left alone. If he were to end up with Daenerys, he would have to make sacrifices — again — to accommodate her way of life. That’s not the ending I want to see for a character who has already given up far too much.

Love does not thrive on shared experiences. It thrives on shared values, and when both parties want similar things out of life. Daenerys and Jon don’t seem to share the same values or desires, and I find it difficult to believe that their differences could be overcome by physical attraction. Is there something I’m missing, Dan? The floor is yours.

DAN: You’re right that Game of Thrones plays with audience expectations, what with prototypical heroes like Ned and Robb being built up only to be killed off. However, the show’s been growing more traditional of late, with season 6 being the closest it’s gotten to a rousing adventure tale. Jon Snow, the prototypical hero de jour, was killed off at the end of season 5, but this time Game of Thrones didn’t let him stay dead. Then he teamed up with his sister to take back his ancestral home, defeat the bad guy, and become the new King in the North. I’m not saying there weren’t complications, but that’s a lot more like a straightforward fantasy narrative than usual.

Dany’s season 6 journey also ended in triumph. Is the show lulling us into a false sense of security before it breaks our hearts again? Maybe. But it’s also possible that Game of Thrones is shifting into a different, more traditional gear as it speeds towards the endgame. Normally, I’d agree with you that getting Jon and Dany together is too obvious to be borne out, but under this new normal, I can see it.

I explained above what Jon and Dany have in common, but you’re right that it may not be enough to sustain a relationship. They do approach leadership from different angles — Dany has always sought power while Jon’s had it thrust upon him.

But I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with seeking power, and disagree that people only follow Dany “because she happened to evoke some magic that brought dragons into the world.” Take Missandei and Grey Worm — they’re devoted to her because she freed them from bondage and recruited them into a crusade to free others. Now that I think about it, you could draw a parallel between Dany’s dedication to freeing slaves and Jon’s insistence that the Night’s Watch help the wildlings at Hardhome. In both cases, these two went against the grain to assist underserved populations…Another thing they have in common!

I think we’ll see some kind of Jon-Dany relationship in season 7 or 8, but that doesn’t mean it has to be an epic romance. I’m hoping it goes somewhere we don’t expect. Perhaps the two could form a marriage alliance only to find that their views on leadership are irreconcilably incompatible (with violent results?), or share a passionate fling that’s thwarted because they have to marry other people. Could you get behind a relationship-with-a-twist scenario?

SARAH: To clarify an earlier point of mine: I don’t think there’s anything wrong with seeking power, I just don’t agree with Dany’s methods. She is a moral absolutist and often acts without mercy when faced with an enemy or defector. Take the burning of the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen. While I can’t deny that the culture of the Dothraki is oppressive, misogynistic and in desperate need of a revamp, that didn’t make it right for Daenerys to completely obliterate their sacred temple. Two wrongs don’t make a right, as the saying goes.

And then you have Jon, who almost always tries to do the right thing. We saw how much it pained him to execute Alliser Thorne and his cronies even though they murdered him in cold blood. These two characters have very different moral compasses. Both are valid, but to harken back to my point about shared values, the differences are crucial. I find it hard to believe that Jon won’t react badly to Arya’s murder spree, and Arya is one of the people he loves most in the world. Daenerys is a total stranger to him — he may be less than kind when he hears that she considers burning her enemies to be fair game.

However, Dany’s tendency towards extremism appears to have been curbed by Tyrion’s influence. Dany has been intelligent enough to recognize that he has wisdom to offer, and I’ll admit that he could help close the gap between her and Jon as regards their very different leadership styles. Still, I think those differences are too great to support a lasting romance, as I assume they would need to lead as a unit if they were married, which I know is the deepest hope of many fans. But that’s just romantic love. If we’re talking about a relationship of a different kind, as you suggest, I’m here for that with bells on.

Thanks to season 6 (and an infographic HBO helpfully released), we all know that Daenerys is related to Jon by blood. Her brother, Rhaegar, is his father, making Daenerys his aunt. From a character perspective, this is absolute gold. Daenerys has always been confident in her position as the last Targaryen, a title that makes her eligible to reclaim her father’s throne. If both she and Jon were to discover the truth, it could breed a lot of juicy conflict. How could Dany fully trust Jon? She may fear that he’s come to take her place, and nobody could blame her because she doesn’t know him like we do. But then again, the only family she ever knew was her cruel, abusive brother Viserys, and she is a rather lonely character despite her many supporters and friends. To have a nephew as trustworthy and loyal as Jon Snow would be a wonderful thing.

However, the Targaryens are notorious for keeping their bloodlines pure by way of incest, and this is why a lot of fans believe that a purely romantic attachment is inevitable. What do you think Jon and Dany’s familial ties spell for the future, Dan?

DAN: Let’s assume that Jon and Dany both find out they’re related. Even then, I don’t think Daenerys would have a problem with the idea of a relationship — political or romantic — with Jon. After all, she grew up on stories from her brother about the glorious Targaryen past, incest and all. I imagine she was brought up to think she would one day marry Viserys. (And wasn’t that a bullet dodged?) I dunno how it would strike Jon, though. That kind of thing just isn’t done where he comes from.

I think it’d be much more interesting if, as you suggest, Daenerys learns the truth and becomes paranoid the Jon is trying to supplant her. (Knowing Jon’s past, a huge army would form up behind him and insist he lead the resistance against the Dragon Queen, and he’d begrudgingly assent.) Unlikely as it seems, an endgame involving Jon fighting Daenerys for the fate of Westeros would be terrific — bonus points if they were developing a genuine romance first but were wrenched apart when the truth of Jon’s origins came out.

But I don’t see it happening. There’s only so much time left in the series, and with the White Walkers on their way, it’s in everyone’s best interests to work together. I think Daenerys is reasonable enough to see that.

Regarding the question that started this post, I still think Jon and Dany could make a fine couple despite their differences. I think your point about Dany being a lonely character despite all her advisors applies to Jon, too. In fact, I think it applies to all leaders — at some point, there are only so many other people who know what it’s like to make those high-level decisions.

And even though they approach leadership from different angles, that needn’t stop them from having a happy home life. Look at James Carville and Mary Matalin. He’s a Democratic strategist who helped elect Bill Clinton president, she’s a Republican-turned-libertarian strategist who worked on George W. Bush’s campaign. But they’ve been married for decades and have two kids. It can be the same for Dany and Jon! Oh, the boisterous dinner table debates they’d have!

So we might have to agree to disagree on some of these issues. But we’ll know how Benioff and Weiss feel about them soon enough.

SARAH: I know that fans like to remind us that incest is the Targaryen way when speaking of the inevitability of a Jon/Daenerys romance, but here’s the thing — there isn’t a modicum of evidence to suggest that Daenerys wishes to carry that mantle. She was raised on stories of her family’s glorious past — this much we know — and it’s likely that a marriage to Viserys may have seemed inevitable at one point. This is exactly why I believe she would set herself against the idea.

Without getting into the nitty-gritty, incest isn’t good for babies. In season 2, Cersei spoke to Tyrion about her fears for her own children and quoted the old saying: “Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin.” Targaryens tend toward insanity because they were obsessed with bedding one another for the sake of blood purity. The reason Aerys Targaryen lost his throne in the first place is because he was an absolute madman; Rhaegar’s supposed kidnapping of Lyanna Stark was merely the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Daenerys, who has been sensible enough to accept counsel from people who knew her father better — is aware of all of this.

While Daenerys isn’t one of my favorite characters, I give her credit for listening to reason. She is not stupid and she doesn’t labor under the same delusions that consumed her cruel and ridiculous brother. She knows what her father was and is intent on doing a far better job than he did. Assuming her body is capable of carrying a child, I find it difficult to believe that she would marry her nephew and risk producing another Aerys or Viserys.

If her body isn’t capable of childbirth, then I doubt she’d throw away the opportunity to carry on her family name by marrying Jon to another woman. Like, for example, Sansa Stark. In Westeros, marriage between cousins is common practice, and in reality is far less dangerous than procreating with a closer relative. Case in point: Tywin Lannister and his wife, Joanna, were first cousins. The waters get murkier when it’s an aunt and nephew.

While I’m happy to agree to disagree, there’s one point on which we are of one mind: it would be good to see them form an alliance. For me, the ideal scenario (assuming they both survive and Dany takes the throne) is one where Daenerys finally finds a family member who is worthy of her time and trust, and that — if the White Walkers are defeated — in his aunt, Jon finds someone to whom he can hand the mantle of leadership before retiring to the quiet life that he so craves and deserves, out of the limelight and relieved of the pressures of ruling that would inevitably come with marrying the queen of the Seven Kingdoms.

And on a final note — am I the only one who wants to see Daenerys marry Tyrion? Help me out here, guys.



Via http://winteriscoming.net/2017/04/08/want-daenerys-jon-snow-get-together/
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